Multi-State / UT-AZ-FL Pistol Permit Class FAQ’s
What is the cost for the class?
Tuition cost for this triple certification class depends on location as some hosts charge more for the use of their facilities than others.
Range for tuition runs from $65.00 to $85.00.
This amount includes: All paperwork, paperwork briefing, classroom training and live fire certification.
Does this class include on-site live fire?
Yes.
Why do you complete live fire in your classes and other instructors do not?
Because FL law currently requires the applicant complete live fire in the presence of the instructor in order to qualify for a FL carry permit.
There was a time when the Florida Division of Licensing and Consumer Services recognized the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP) training model. At that time FL authorities honored an Affidavit letter (which had to be signed by a Notary Public) stating that the student had completed the UT CFP class.
Later, FL officials changed their interpretation and ceased honoring the UT CFP training model. At that point live fire with a firearm had to be completed.
Since Florida law requires completion of live fire it is done on site as a part of my class.
It is recommended that as a perspective student planning on taking a class so as to apply for a FL carry permit you ask the instructor:
1) Does the class include a live fire element?
2) Is live fire done on site?
3) Does the cost of the class include live fire?
If the perspective instructor says that his class is approved by Florida, but that he doesn’t complete live fire immediately request this statement in writing and on the instructor’s company letterhead.
Once you obtain this instructor’s “policy” in writing send a copy of it to the Florida Division of Licensing and Consumer Services for review and confirmation.
If FL officials approve of the fact that you are not completing live fire with a firearm in the class then you are all set! However, if FL officials state that you must complete live fire then you’ll need to find an instructor who does live fire as a part of the class.
What extra services are offered in class?
To help the student, extra services including fingerprinting, photography and Notary Public are all offered in class.
Please pay the providers in cash separately. These services are not mandatory and you select what you want.
Costs are:
1) Fingerprinting (each card is done by a Police Officer and is agency stamped).
Cost is $10.00 per card (please note that Arizona requires two fingerprint cards):
UT - $10.00, FL - $10.00, AZ - $20.00
2) All required Notary and photography (both services combined): $15.00
What do I bring to class?
1) Firearm
2) 12 rounds of ammunition
3) Eye protection (with side shields)
4) Ear protection.
5) Billed cap. Baseball cap is fine
6) Pens with black ink. Please bring 2.
7) Photo identification (such an a NYS Driver License)
8) Food & drink (We will have a working lunch.)
How long is the class?
5 ½ to 6 hours in length.
Note: UT BCI policy has a recommended minimum of 4 hours for this class. In speaking with BCI Investigators we are in agreement that to do a thorough job with the material a class length greater than 4 hours is indicated.
Once you see the detail given to topics such as legal aspects of lawful personal defense, use of force continuum, mindset, interacting with police, realities of citizen’s arrest, etc. you’ll appreciate why my class is this length.
I have had many students come to me after class and mention that the class passed quickly and that the material covered was top rate.
Must I have a NYS Pistol Permit to take this class?
No.
You may take this class and apply for (and receive) the carry permits from UT, AZ and FL without having a pre-existing carry permit.
Reason being: UT, AZ and FL do complete background checks on each applicant.
If you do not yet have your NYS Pistol Permit you’ll live fire with a long gun. All others may use a handgun.
Reason being: FL requires that the student safely handle and discharge a firearm. “Firearm” in this case may be a handgun or long gun firing conventional hunting, target or self-protection ammunition. No simulators (Airsoft, paintball, Simunitions, lasers, etc.) for live fire are permitted by FL policy.
How my “Multi-State / UT-AZ-FL Pistol Permit Class” was influenced by previous training:
This class is really a natural evolution that began with my NYS Pistol Permit class. In 2009 I became the first Western New York resident to be certified as a Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification firearms instructor. Once certified by BCI, I was able to offer the UT Concealed Firearm Permit class to local people who wished to obtain their Utah Concealed Firearm Permit.
Shortly after gaining my UT BCI instructor credentials I learned that Florida would recognize the UT CFP class as satisfying Florida training requirements. Once this fact was cleared with FL licensing officials and UT BCI, I began to offer my “UT & FL duel certification class.”
I made it a policy to not charge extra money to the students for the added Florida certification. The reason for this is that by completing the UT CFP class they had already earned training that was recognized by Florida. All I had to do was provide them with an Affidavit letter proving successful completion of the class.
The students appreciated my honesty and this policy continued for a time.
However, this all changed in the summer of 2012 when Florida Division of Licensing officials announced that any future applicants would have to complete a live fire qualification with a firearm. With this change in interpretation my classes had to contain a live fire element at the range.
In time Arizona was also added to the mix and this class evolved into the “Multi-State” or “UT-AZ-FL Pistol Permit Class.”
As an aside, obtaining Pistol Permits from UT, AZ and FL provides a NYS Pistol Permit holder with multi-state concealed carry permit coverage. For an interesting interactive reciprocity map visit the USA Carry website: http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
The mandated UT CFP course includes (but is not limited to) training in: 1) The use of force continuum, 2) Legal aspects of Justified Use of Force & Deadly Physical Force, 3) State & Federal firearms laws, 4) Interacting with Police Officers, 5) Mindset, 6) Defensive ammo selection, 7) Ballistics, 8) Defensive equipment selection, 9) Deployment issues, 10) Stopping power, and a host of other issues.
As you can see, the content of the UT CFP class demands that the instructor have an advanced level of training within the threat management and tactical firearms training fields as they relate to private citizens. If the instructor does have an advanced level of training, the student will not receive the degree of detail that is necessary for proper insight and mastery of the subject.
Ironically, during my first 40 hour class at Lethal Force Institute we received instruction in most of what would later become the UT BCI Concealed Firearm Permit training model! To this day my Multi-State Pistol Permit Class borrows heavily from experiences and knowledge gleaned from my past training and life experiences.
Why would a Pistol Permit holder, here in New York State, want to bother with a Utah or Florida concealed carry permit?
The short answer is “reciprocity.”
The notion of “reciprocity” is fairly simple, but certainly not idiot proof.
To use the analogy of a NYS Driver’s License we can say that those who possess a valid NYS Driver’s License have reciprocity with every other State in the U.S.
This means that my NYS Driver’s License is as valid in California as it is here in Upstate New York.
Unfortunately, Pistol Permits are not granted that degree of latitude by other states!
Attorney David Wong describes it this way in his excellent book “The Traveler’s Gun & Knife Law Book. First edition”, page 11:
“The terms 'reciprocity' and 'recognition', in the context of firearms carry, typically refer to the ability to lawfully carry in a state that’s not your home state. Technically, reciprocity refers to a legal agreement between states to honor each other’s permits, while recognition refers to one state’s unilateral decision to honor another state’s permits even if that other state doesn’t honor permits from the first state.”
As New York State residents, about 15 States honor our own (NYS) Pistol Permit. I say “about” because that number can increase or decrease depending on changes in law. The point is that while some states honor our NYS Pistol Permit we can obtain greater coverage throughout our country by obtaining a UT, AZ and / or FL carry permit.
The process we go through to obtain our UT, AZ & FL carry permits is very simple as all three are “shall issue” States. Yes, they do a complete background check on applicants, but the paperwork that we must complete is simpler and the processing time is vastly shorter due to policy of these "shall issue” States.
I was told that, as a Pistol Permit holder, it’s illegal to carry my handgun outside of New York State. (Or words that suggest carry outside of NYS violates New York law).
This is a common urban legend and is not a completely truthful statement!
It is recommended that when someone makes such a statement that you politely request that person:
1) Cite that portion of New York State law to which they are referring.
2) If they are serving as a public official, request that they put their statement in writing.
In fact New York State Pistol Permit holders may legally carry a concealed handgun in a number of states by:
1. Following the current laws governing reciprocity (“Reciprocity” is the term meaning that one
State will honor the handgun carry permit of another State.)
2. Possessing a current & valid “carry permit” recognized by the State in which you wish to carry.
It is worth considering that a retired Police Officer (who is now officially a “civilian”) with a NYS Pistol Permit and an “H.R. 218 card” would never be told that it is illegal to carry that handgun outside of New York State!
Actually, public information indicates that a number of States will honor the NYS Pistol Permit. This information is public knowledge.
As an example USA Carry has an interactive reciprocity map at this site: http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
So we see that which State will or will not honor the New York State Pistol Permit depends on the law of that particular host State.
What States will recognize a NYS Pistol Permit holder with a valid UT, AZ or FL Pistol Permit?
For legal, up to date reciprocity listings please visit these official issuing agency websites:
UT Bureau of Criminal Identification:
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/concealedfirearms.html
AZ Dept. of Public Safety:
http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/
FL Dept. of Agriculture:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html
! Note: The only accurate source for current reciprocity listings is from the issuing agencies!
! Use the above websites to obtain fully accurate, current and legal reciprocity / recognition lists!
How do I obtain a UT, AZ & FL non-resident Pistol Permit?
A) Take the “Jim Carr UT- AZ- FL Pistol Permit” class.
The class I teach satisfies the training requirements for all three issuing agencies for these States.
Utah requires applicants to successfully complete the UT Concealed Firearm Permit class (I am a UT Bureau of Criminal Identification certified instructor). Arizona & Florida will honor the “live fire” certificate I issue following the UT CFP class. With these proofs of successful completion, you may apply for and receive your UT, AZ & FL non-resident pistol permits.
B) Complete the applications.
Applications, fingerprint cards and study books are all supplied in the class for free.
C) Have your fingerprints taken in class.
A Police Officer will be in class for fingerprints. He charges only $10.00 per fingerprint card. UT requires 1 card ($10), AZ 2 cards ($20) and FL 1 card ($10). Please pay the Officer directly in cash.
D) Photographs & Notarization of papers.
A photographer and Notary Public will be in class. A total cash fee of $15.00 covers all necessary photos and Notarization / inspection of paperwork. Please pay the photographer & Notary directly.
E) Send in the completed application packets plus license fee to the respective issuing agencies.
Application / license fee: UT = $51.00. AZ = $60.00. FL=$112.00.
F) Processing time: UT & AZ maximum 60 days. Florida maximum of 90 days.
G) Your Pistol Permit will be mailed to you by the issuing agency.
Cost of the class per student:
Cost per student ranges from $60.00 to $80.00 depending on what the host charges for the use of their facility. This training fee covers applications, training book & materials and certification as being fully trained so that when you leave class you can apply for the UT, AZ and FL Pistol Permits.
*Note: Fingerprinting, photography / Notary services are done in class as extra services. You pay the providers personally in cash on the day of class.
*Note: Live fire requires you to bring your firearm, 12 rounds ammo, eye & ear protection and a billed cap.
Why the class price is kept low:
I make it a point to keep the costs low and the quality high in these classes.
As American citizens we enjoy the blessing of a Constitutional guarantee to be able to exercise the right to keep and bear arms. If the cost for a class too high, the average citizen can not afford the process to obtain the needed carry permits. Thus, excessively high training costs become a de facto form of gun control and this doesn’t help the average law abiding citizen at all.
This training fee is low enough so that the average citizen can afford to take the class and then apply for the carry permits.
Length of the UT CFP class is approximately 5 ½ hours (not including live fire following class).
The UT Bureau of Criminal Identification has established a “recommended minimum of 4 hours” for this class. In discussing the matter with UT BCI Investigators at length, it is clear that to do a thorough job teaching these materials one must take more time than the suggested 4 hour minimum!
5 ½ hours seems to be an accurate estimate of training time for this course as I must train you in:
State, Federal and Administrative laws, use of force issues, justification of force, citizens arrest, use of force continuum, criminal and civil liability, weapons safety & deployment under duress, holster & ammunition selection, justification of defensive ammunition, handgun draw-stroke & presentation, safe & tactically sound concealment techniques, etc.
To the above we add student questions & discussions!
Do we shoot in this class?
Yes. Following the UT CFP class we will shoot. Bring your firearm, 12 rounds ammo, eye & ear protection and a billed cap. Live fire does add time to the class and this is based on the number of students we have.
Must you already have a NYS Pistol Permit to take this class and obtain these carry permits?
No. The legally truthful answer is that you may apply for and obtain the UT, AZ and FL non-resident concealed carry permits without having your NYS Pistol Permit. However, do not attempt to carry a handgun anywhere until you have obtained your New York State Pistol Permit as your base permit.
Remember that New York State does not honor the carry permits from any other State!
Do you register the handguns which are on your NYS Pistol Permit with the UT, AZ or FL issuing agencies?
No. When you obtain the carry permits from these States there is no cross registration. You place the non-resident UT, AZ and /or FL Pistol Permit in your wallet and carry concealed where legal.
What of changes in law and reciprocity?
This fact is stressed in class: Permit holders must research and abide by current laws in host States. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for violating the law!
Issuing agencies maintain current data bases on laws & reciprocity which you can research on-line.
Photo below was taken during a Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification CFP Instructor certification class. From left: Investigator Jeff Dunn, Jim Carr, Investigator Phil Leiker.
